topic: was abraham the first jew? w

 topic: was abraham the first jew?

chapters:   chapter one the claim

chapter 2 analysis

chapter 3 when did abraham live?  3 calculations

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 chapter one the claim

adults and children  who do not know about ancient egyptian circumcision are easily fooled that abraham was the first jew.

the simple evidence is "abrahams children ismael and esau were not in the jewish nation therefore their father was not either" however i will discuss both sides.

they might be influenced by the christian gospel matthew that links jesus to abraham as "evidence" that abrahamm was jewish therefore he was mentioned as ancestor of jesus yet matthew never said abraham was jewish.

it is "common knowledge" that abraham was the first jew with NO BASIS and most people heard the claim when they were children TOO young to know that a claim NEEDS  a basis from a qualified source. sadly i have yet to meet adults that know that... i did not until i read a book about solving arguments. if they said abraham was a muslim...

when i heard the claim that "abraham was jewish" i challenged the claim "what makes you think that?" i felt certain i would win the debate due to the name of the jews "israelites" and in hebrew "sons of isreal." for me that proved the nation of jews started with the sons of israel not including "papa israel"  whose brother was not included nor  ancestors.

the other guy proved with logic a=b "jews circumcise and abraham was the first circumcise therefore abraham was the first jew". does that fool you?

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  chapter 2 analysis

is the premise true? was abraham the FIRST to circumcise?

if you ONLY know the bible then abraham was "the first in the bible" to circumcise at age one hundred... if people hear "ancient egyptians did it" they will claim egyptians stole it from the jews... guilty of stealing.  but only prejudiced by the preconceived notion that abraham was the first jew if they woud chek egyptian history they woud know and can know the correct order as i will explain. but who bothers to check?

??

i recall a similar claim reading the "first war" was the first war in the bible... yet even the bible never said that it was first and no wars before. it was the "first war involving abraham". i did not know when i read that lie that the unification of upper and lower egypt was by battles 3000 bc ergo long before abraham and even before writing... so i trusted the rabbi book, whose author showed he believed it was first war.

similarly the claim about abraham, they are essentially claiming abraham was first based on ignorance.

***they only know the bible and are ignorant of other sources.

ancient egyptians circumcise and jews circumcise logicly  a=b therefore egyptians are jews??

??

they have responded "that is not proof if egyptians copied" and learned from the jews later... humans have baselessly claimed abraham was first, hoping we cant prove who copied from whom...

but we DO KNOW.

archeological evidence from pyramids in 2300 bc shows that some egyptians circumcised adult men in that era of 2300 bc... and later mummies some were cut and some were natural.

to claim abraham was jewish they will insist abraham circumcised FIRST... yet acording to jewish tradition published in jewish sources such as soncino and others abram was hundreds of years AFTER 2300 bc.

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  chapter 3 when did abraham live?

3a, according to rabbi dates 3760-2050=1710 BC abrahams ceremony was SIX hundred years after the egyptians "were circumcising". and abraham did not copy them when abraham was age twenty, but much later, AFTER he returned from a trip to egypt...  hmm....

religious people are compelled to believe abraham was not a fictional character... so we check their numbers. if they dared to say that they doubt it their companions would call them mean names "devil and heretic" and the threat of physical hits too... still if abraham  was fictional then no jew ACTUALLY circumcised until much later claiming they want to be like abraham in the story.

3b, 

the claim in the jewish publisher "soncino" that abraham lived 1900 bc is not the traditional jewish view. as above the tradition is 1700 BC, still even their number is long after 2300 bc when the sixth dynasty was already circumcising. source "sixth dynasty in 2300 bc" from pyramids then.

3c, 

another computation: we know that "king mesa defeated israel in 843 BC" from archealogical stone, the story matching the defeat recorded in book kings that i will quote. according to bible that was 120 years after solomon in the reign of jehosapat as i will explain book 2 kings 3:27... revealing elisha was not only a false prophet but worse about a good prophecy, that means the book duteronomy DOES say to test a prophet and punish false prophest so testing is possible. 

if the prophet said "bad will happen" that is not a test but if the prophet said "good will happen" then that IS a test so here elisha said "success in battle hit all the cities" yet his message was not from god who knew... at the moment of the prophecy the future that mesa woud win and so in contrast to jonah, elisha was not only a false prophet separate from god but also the book kings is separate from god as evident here and other errors that god knew but the writers of kings and chronicles were spearate from god. 

continuing this idea a similar test of moses shows he too was separate from god and now that we know he was a false prophet we know moses "only claimed god to sway the primitive audience" in other words  he knew if he lied they woud believe him kuz they cant check if god said, and primitive people did not even KNOW as you dear reader certainly know "claims need a basis to reach a conclusion"... same as young kids who hear the bible before they understand that idea.  kids believe in santa claus and the tooth fairy and that the first man was made from dirt of the earth.... these ideas are informed "we tricked you" except god, which also lingers after learning critical thinking due to entering the young minds. most of the scientists who believe in god HEARD bout god as children and the idea remains from BEFORE they learned critical thinking.

  3c continuing the calculation:

back to the calculation. which king was then? jehosapat.

 we add the years til solomon 120+843=963 bc. we copy the exagerated number in book kings 480+960=1440 as the date of exodus that jews do not believe interpreting kings as exageration the authors were allowed to exagerate "not a lie unless exagerate by seven times too much". rabbis teach and taut that exodus was 1300 bc not 1440.  soncino  the jewish publisher claims exodus  AFTER rabbis 1230 bc.

other jewish sources "josephus and rashi" specify that israel was in egypt 200 yyears and again interpret that "authors believed they were permitted to exagerate" so not a lie to double... unles they would write 1400 years in egyot that would be a lie... and they could still claim the singular "land" includes plural lands kuz religious bias ignores singular and plural on many issues... the word "of god is not precise".

soncino claims enterd egypt 1630 so 1310 of rabbis minus 1630=320 years in egypt which is wrong as above jewish tradition specified TWO hundred years... but we will copy the book anyway... despite exageration...

960+480+430=1870 entered egypt according to bible. 

1870+130+60=2060 was isac birth when abraham a hundred same as circumcision age  so still 300 hundred years after egyptians...

and the nubers in the bible was exagerated due to the authors belief that they were permitted to exagerate... as preserved in book mishna and rabbi teachers in our generation.the jewish publisher soncino claims abraham was 1900 bc ignoring the biblical ages: jacob and isac 130+60 as exageration with a gap 160 years.

not only is a denier "of the long lives of adam and seth" not a sin in jewish faith those are peripheree not fundemental ideas... but more importantly the rabbis dare to teach that "the correct interpretation" is that they lived shorter "the author believed he was permitted to exagerate."

rabbis taut in a lecture, that i attended that the "long lives before noa" were "truly shorter" not just no "religious sin if reject" but interreting exageration. as above the author is only guilty of lying if he exagerate sby seven so if adam died at age 930/7=132 years is "the correct interpretation to believe and teach, and despite truly 132 not a lie to write 930. this is hinted by the punishment "will be 120" indicating before te flood a bit more than 120. and was it true? after the flood the same book said 400

??

similarly the generations after the flood. the lives in genesis chapter 11 of 450 years not only "possibly 120" when the author exagerated by four, since less than 7 is permitted  but the "correct interpretation is that they DID exagerate by 7" after childing age 35 [in hebrew but in septuagint preserving the "original bible" as josephus used 135 also divided by 7=19]  he lived 403/7=57 years more totalling less than 120 as god decreed, that is the "correct number" not 120 nor more for "correct interpretation" same as methusale not only teaching "only 13 principles" therefore "not a sin despite ought/should accept 900"  but specifying  we should teach the "correct interpretation is exagerated by 7" as above. met' 969/7=138 before decree 120 years and after the decree 120 those generations arpaksad and sela and eber all less than 120 was FULFILLED  while the author believed as above he was permitted to exagerate. s

this differs from jospeus specifying they truly lived 900 preserving the primitive faith of jews and specifying "the short lives now do not prove that before the flood was also short lives." but rabbis both in our generation my teachers and in the book mishna specify that the numbers ARE exagerations for example the number 480 in book kings is exagerated the "correct" number is 1310-960=350 years but the "author believed he was allowed to exagerate" even from seventy to 480, yet the "correct number" is 350.

the number of years in egypt 430 "in egypt" according to rabbis was specified as exageration, this time  not divided by seven, this time but the "correct number 210" as preserved in rashi on talmud aboda zara 9a, or in jospus 205 but "the author believed that he was allowd to double due to exagerating until seven times" as above. 

in contrast christians published 400 so i used their number to calculate abraham and even that number, still  abraham lived hundreds of years after 2300 bc when egyptians circumcised. what about the biblical evidence? the year of the family of amram indicates the time in egypt was less than 400 years in exodus 6. the christian ansewer as usual can be "that is part of the story every detail is true and more" meaning the father of amram was not listed and kehat was an "ancestor not literal father" of amram same as they say about other geneologies that every word is true and that is PART of the story that other details complete.

back to abraham, the toic of this dddiscussion: 

 and abraham at age 100 and AFTER RETURNING from egypt circumcised he thout god wanted him to... a disguise for copying the egyptians where some were circumcised and others such as ahmose.... his name sounds like moses was natural intact and his mummy not circumcised so the evidence "abraham was a jew due to circumcision" is revealed as a trick only believed by people who do not know that egyptians circumcised in 2300 bc.   BC